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	<title>Comments on: Thirteen Things That Are Wrong With Libertarianism</title>
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	<link>http://jontillman.com/2007/04/26/thirteen-things-that-are-wrong-with-libertarianism/</link>
	<description>Part of the problem since 1976</description>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://jontillman.com/2007/04/26/thirteen-things-that-are-wrong-with-libertarianism/comment-page-1/#comment-2993</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Apr 2007 13:00:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jontillman.com/2007/04/26/thirteen-things-that-are-wrong-with-libertarianism/#comment-2993</guid>
		<description>I find most political labels particularly ineffective and quite the waste of time. I support that which remains true to my own direction. It may be part this, part that. I suppose the largest part comes from my father, though. &quot;Son, you have an absolute duty to give back to the community that allowed you to become what you are.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find most political labels particularly ineffective and quite the waste of time. I support that which remains true to my own direction. It may be part this, part that. I suppose the largest part comes from my father, though. &#8220;Son, you have an absolute duty to give back to the community that allowed you to become what you are.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Libertarianism Discussion: at JONTILLMAN.COM</title>
		<link>http://jontillman.com/2007/04/26/thirteen-things-that-are-wrong-with-libertarianism/comment-page-1/#comment-2974</link>
		<dc:creator>Libertarianism Discussion: at JONTILLMAN.COM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Apr 2007 08:59:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jontillman.com/2007/04/26/thirteen-things-that-are-wrong-with-libertarianism/#comment-2974</guid>
		<description>[...] to my RSS feed. If you don&#039;t you might miss out on the Diversions! Thanks for visiting! In my first post on this subject, I stated that:  1. Libertarianism is highly axiomatic: There&#8217;s a set of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to my <acronym title="Really Simple Syndication">RSS</acronym> feed. If you don&#8217;t you might miss out on the Diversions! Thanks for visiting! In my first post on this subject, I stated that:  1. Libertarianism is highly axiomatic: There&#8217;s a set of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://jontillman.com/2007/04/26/thirteen-things-that-are-wrong-with-libertarianism/comment-page-1/#comment-2971</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Apr 2007 07:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jontillman.com/2007/04/26/thirteen-things-that-are-wrong-with-libertarianism/#comment-2971</guid>
		<description>My interest lies mainly in the philosophical underpinnings of propertarian/right-libertarian thought, which seem to be scant, at best. Then again, it is awfully hard to couch a comprehensive and internally consistent philosophy entirely within a dozen or so terms of art.

My understanding of philosophy, shallow as it is, leads me to think that the sort of minimal or non- state advocated by right-libertarians is likely to lead rather quickly to an oligarchy or tyranny, and that the reason for that is buried deep within the philosophical assumptions made by them.

I really do not have much interest in political theory, per se, but I do find it curious that anarchists advocate a much broader, more encompassing form of government than right-libertarians.

I suppose the argument goes something like this:

Anarchist) The social contract is the basis of all government, and amending and strengthening it can free us from the looming tyranny of a capitalist oligarchy by relying on face-to-face democracy.

Libertarian) Capital and market are the basis of all free exchange and unfettering them can free us from the tyranny of a social contract and a tyranny of the majority in the form of face-to-face democracy.

While each of these critiques of the current state of the State has its kook wing, as far as I can see, the question is thus; do you think that democracy is the best (known) way to maintain a society or not.

If you read the literature of each, you will find that anarchists are in support of democracy and that right-libertarians are against it. The basis of all of their arguments relies on a denial of democracy, of any vote or contract that is not mediated and defined by &quot;the market&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My interest lies mainly in the philosophical underpinnings of propertarian/right-libertarian thought, which seem to be scant, at best. Then again, it is awfully hard to couch a comprehensive and internally consistent philosophy entirely within a dozen or so terms of art.</p>
<p>My understanding of philosophy, shallow as it is, leads me to think that the sort of minimal or non- state advocated by right-libertarians is likely to lead rather quickly to an oligarchy or tyranny, and that the reason for that is buried deep within the philosophical assumptions made by them.</p>
<p>I really do not have much interest in political theory, per se, but I do find it curious that anarchists advocate a much broader, more encompassing form of government than right-libertarians.</p>
<p>I suppose the argument goes something like this:</p>
<p>Anarchist) The social contract is the basis of all government, and amending and strengthening it can free us from the looming tyranny of a capitalist oligarchy by relying on face-to-face democracy.</p>
<p>Libertarian) Capital and market are the basis of all free exchange and unfettering them can free us from the tyranny of a social contract and a tyranny of the majority in the form of face-to-face democracy.</p>
<p>While each of these critiques of the current state of the State has its kook wing, as far as I can see, the question is thus; do you think that democracy is the best (known) way to maintain a society or not.</p>
<p>If you read the literature of each, you will find that anarchists are in support of democracy and that right-libertarians are against it. The basis of all of their arguments relies on a denial of democracy, of any vote or contract that is not mediated and defined by &#8220;the market&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://jontillman.com/2007/04/26/thirteen-things-that-are-wrong-with-libertarianism/comment-page-1/#comment-2969</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Apr 2007 07:08:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jontillman.com/2007/04/26/thirteen-things-that-are-wrong-with-libertarianism/#comment-2969</guid>
		<description>The vast majority of your rejoinder is non-responsive to what I actually wrote, and I will address each individual point in a later post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The vast majority of your rejoinder is non-responsive to what I actually wrote, and I will address each individual point in a later post.</p>
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		<title>By: Himself</title>
		<link>http://jontillman.com/2007/04/26/thirteen-things-that-are-wrong-with-libertarianism/comment-page-1/#comment-2949</link>
		<dc:creator>Himself</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jontillman.com/2007/04/26/thirteen-things-that-are-wrong-with-libertarianism/#comment-2949</guid>
		<description>Sure it&#039;s been tried... Somalia, Afghanistan, Congo... Libertarian paradises all.

Thanks for tackling this, Jon. Too many people are fooled by Libertarian &quot;logic&quot; into thinking you can get something for nothing.

At their core, Libertarians (note the capital &#039;L&#039;) are anti-civilization. They want the benefits of society, but they don&#039;t want to give anything back. It&#039;s really a selfish, childish mentality. They like to dress up and play grown-up, but there is no foundational academic rigor to their beliefs. Hence their house of cards flutters to the ground, and they whine and cry and stamp their feet. 

There is no libertarian intellectual tradition to counter the panoply of Marxist-socialist works. Just a motley collection of selfish bastards thumping their copies of Friedman&#039;s &lt;em&gt;Free to Choose&lt;/em&gt; and whining about taxes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure it&#8217;s been tried&#8230; Somalia, Afghanistan, Congo&#8230; Libertarian paradises all.</p>
<p>Thanks for tackling this, Jon. Too many people are fooled by Libertarian &#8220;logic&#8221; into thinking you can get something for nothing.</p>
<p>At their core, Libertarians (note the capital &#8216;L&#8217;) are anti-civilization. They want the benefits of society, but they don&#8217;t want to give anything back. It&#8217;s really a selfish, childish mentality. They like to dress up and play grown-up, but there is no foundational academic rigor to their beliefs. Hence their house of cards flutters to the ground, and they whine and cry and stamp their feet. </p>
<p>There is no libertarian intellectual tradition to counter the panoply of Marxist-socialist works. Just a motley collection of selfish bastards thumping their copies of Friedman&#8217;s <em>Free to Choose</em> and whining about taxes.</p>
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		<title>By: Libertarianism Discussion: Introduction at JONTILLMAN.COM</title>
		<link>http://jontillman.com/2007/04/26/thirteen-things-that-are-wrong-with-libertarianism/comment-page-1/#comment-2936</link>
		<dc:creator>Libertarianism Discussion: Introduction at JONTILLMAN.COM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:38:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jontillman.com/2007/04/26/thirteen-things-that-are-wrong-with-libertarianism/#comment-2936</guid>
		<description>[...] post yesterday on Thirteen Things That Are Wrong With Libertarianism has been answered at length by one Rich Paul, a gentleman who calls himself a (the?) Radical [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] post yesterday on Thirteen Things That Are Wrong With Libertarianism has been answered at length by one Rich Paul, a gentleman who calls himself a (the?) Radical [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Damozel</title>
		<link>http://jontillman.com/2007/04/26/thirteen-things-that-are-wrong-with-libertarianism/comment-page-1/#comment-2935</link>
		<dc:creator>Damozel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:27:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jontillman.com/2007/04/26/thirteen-things-that-are-wrong-with-libertarianism/#comment-2935</guid>
		<description>I like your analysis very much, being unable to detect the aforesaid errors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like your analysis very much, being unable to detect the aforesaid errors.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://jontillman.com/2007/04/26/thirteen-things-that-are-wrong-with-libertarianism/comment-page-1/#comment-2931</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 05:28:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jontillman.com/2007/04/26/thirteen-things-that-are-wrong-with-libertarianism/#comment-2931</guid>
		<description>Yes, beware of people whose leading &#039;philosopher&#039; is a science fiction writer with a revenge fantasy...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, beware of people whose leading &#8216;philosopher&#8217; is a science fiction writer with a revenge fantasy&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://jontillman.com/2007/04/26/thirteen-things-that-are-wrong-with-libertarianism/comment-page-1/#comment-2930</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 05:27:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jontillman.com/2007/04/26/thirteen-things-that-are-wrong-with-libertarianism/#comment-2930</guid>
		<description>Personally, I say let &#039;em try it. There has never been a functioning libertarian society. In the freest free market going, the market for international States, none have ever chosen libertarianism. There was much discussion and disagreement about centrally planned economies too, until some people went out and tried it. Now that issue is pretty well settled, isn&#039;t it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Personally, I say let &#8216;em try it. There has never been a functioning libertarian society. In the freest free market going, the market for international States, none have ever chosen libertarianism. There was much discussion and disagreement about centrally planned economies too, until some people went out and tried it. Now that issue is pretty well settled, isn&#8217;t it.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://jontillman.com/2007/04/26/thirteen-things-that-are-wrong-with-libertarianism/comment-page-1/#comment-2929</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 05:24:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Fair enough ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fair enough <img src='http://jontillman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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